71 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 16.7.2015
Jul 19, 2015 at 12:22 pm | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: Bread, crowdfunding, einkorn, emmer, Funchal, kamut, laboratory, luiz saldanha, madeira consorcio, Marine biology station, ocean observatory, Portugal, project, redistribution of wealth, splet, transparency
71 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 16.7.2015
Visit to the Marine Biology Station:
We visited the Marine Biology Station on Praia das Gaivotas, E’s place of work. The Ocean observatory is housed there, and Gr., although she is not officially back to work, also helps out there.
AL, one of the scientists, graciously showed us around. On appointment, she offers guided tours in English and Portuguese on a regular schedule. This would also be an interesting for tourists walks – nobody knows about it!
The station has an extensive library; the oceanographer Luiz Saldanha donated many unique books to the Station. The content is already available in digital format under www.cm-funchal.pt -> Ciencia ->Publicacoes. The Summer University students (Leicester) study here with E. One scientist is currently studying the impact plastic residue has on the marine animal world.
The station, dedicated to the study of the ocean and its species, is fifteen years old. It was supposed to be a part of a bigger complex; due to monetary restraints, the rest will not be built. The station has six floors and houses several, dedicated laboratories. The technical equipment (long lines of multiple tubes on the ceilings, big microscopes, lab bottles – empty as well as filled with something – is quite good. A rolling archive houses thousands of animal species in formaldehyde and alcohol.
The station works with in conjunction with UMa and the Municipal Aquarium in Rua da Mouraria. It is part of an international network of Marine Biology stations. Some preserved species from the Aquarium, are now housed in tanks in the Station, including the head of a once five-m long shark in formaldehyde. Some of the species stored may already be extinct by now.
The station has dedicated laboratories and teaching spaces; Gr was working in one of them. It also affords living space for visiting scientist. On the ground floor, above the beach, are two tanks which can accommodate turtles. One of the scientists is tracing them. Local fishermen also cooperate with the station; when they catch unusual species, they contact the scientists to collect them at the auction and take them to the station to be studied. The station is also a point of reference for scientists worldwide who want to compare species to ascertain of they found a new sub-species in our Waters.
Discussion:
We then started off by talking about the Redistribution of Wealth text.
The rich are not the problem; they can be a part of the solution. It’s a fact that the Portuguese have no culture of giving, they only think of themselves, their family and their friends. Since the times of Salazar, they are used to doing what they are told, they have no revolutionary traits – maybe something in that vein is starting now on the Algarve islets, due to the mass eviction of poor people (from illegal homes, endangered by rising water levels). They are also keen on subsidies which stop them from growing foodstuff for their own use and local sales. They also duly follow the seduction by advertising and throw away and replace instead of recycling, re-using and repairing products.
The Greeks import every lemon, now they will have to create an internal, local economy and start growing their own food. Where there is demand, supply will follow.
Wealth does not need to be measured by money, we can consider ourselves rich when we have a satisfying life.
Money is empowerment; it should not be kept under the mattress, it needs to circulate.
Ce would like to forbid the money flowing into sports in order to redirect the funds to social projects. Subsidies should be abolished.
- Education is the cornerstone to get the population to come away from the “Taker” model (Ishmael) and get them to fight for a more meaningful life.
- A good example is needed to create the right motivation. A good example is Sebastian Salgados “A Salt of the Earth” approach; Wim Wenders made the film (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_salt_of_the_earth/ ). Salgado photographed a lot of wars and bad events, and then decided to dedicate himself to do good by reforesting a vast area of land in Brazil. (http://www.institutoterra.org/eng/conteudosLinks.php?id=22&tl=QWJvdXQgdXM=&sb=NQ==#.VauBqfmP_KB )
- People need to start to question things and they need to stop using subsidies, they can use crowdfunding to start up a business (kickstarter, indiegogo, for Portugal www http://ppl.com.pt ). A site comparing crowdfunding sites: http://www.crowdfunding.com/ it is mportant to choose well because the platforms charge at least a 5% fee for the campaigns.
- Transparency: everything needs to and will be disclosed on the internet in the future. The “traditional” administrator who thinks that he can do what he wants, without benign controlled, will be a thing of the past.
Crowdfunding is a new form of financing, open to all, not just the rich. D invested a bit of money in an apparatus, invented but yet to be developed and marketed, which replaces the cumbersome Sleep Apnoe masks many persons need to use.
Then E read us a text of his, with the story of how he came to like and bake bread of the highest quality. With this meeting, we came to the following conclusion:
We decided that it would be a good project for the group to promote E’s dream of a bakery and bread shop (no Café) to produce and sell his bread, based on old strains of grains (Spelt, Emmer, Einkorn. Kamut). We would help him get the funding through a crowdfunding site, and Ri could take good photos and produce a video for the site. We have to choose the best platform http://www.crowdfunding.com/ to reach the maximum national and international support. As incentive for the backers, E can offer bread subscriptions.
E’s bread can also be exported, he already had requests in this regard.
This would set a good example for the population of self-help to produce a local, Madeira-made product, with grains from Madeira Island, milled on site. A healthy, not genetically modified and not poisoned bread.
This group goal will also be in line with Ri’s idea that the group should focus and work on a meaningful concept
Our next meeting will be on WEDNESDAY 19.8.2015
70 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 21.5.2015
Jun 21, 2015 at 11:09 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: big five for life, gary haugen, health service, Hospital, jean giorno, kings fund, Madeira, madeira consorcio, marmeleiros, new hospital, poverty, strelecky, ted talk
We continued our talk with Dr. C.P. about the situation of our health services in Madeira. He made it clear that the six towers building next to the hospital is not a good idea, it’s not even safe: the plot is on a slope where the exhaust fumes of the cars on the roundabout and tunnel below would float up the hill and adversely affect (at least) the patients with breathing problems. A new hospital is really needed; it would be possible to install modern and well-designed supply piping (oxygen and the like) and afford better service access (and fire exits). It would be easier to avoid sepsis which in the old hospital cannot be avoided, not due to bad hygiene but due to the building itself. The devil is in the details.
The City Hall commissioned a 20 page study about the feasibility of the six towers, and the result was negative. This study was rejected by the old Government.
The best option would be S. Rita. (The Savoy plot would not have adequate access to the traffic.) Another option would be to tear down the School next to the Hospital (which as all schools, is losing pupils) and build there; the land was originally part of the hospital plot.
The Marmeleiros Hospital (Internal medicine) should be next to the main hospital. Now, recourses are wasted on transport between the units. Due to bad maintenance and management, ambulances are late, even in servicing regular patient transport.
Madeira has a hospital centre, not a “proper” hospital like on the mainland. Rare cases still have to be treated on the continent.
We should have an emphasis on one specialty, eg. fighting diabetes which is prevalent on the island but the island does not have a critical mass of inhabitants. Autonomy in this area is not possible.
The pity is that 80 Mil. € were invested in the old hospital (Nuclear Medicine, Pharmacy, Labs), and even if the equipment is moved, there is a waste of money that cannot be recuperated.
We have, for an island, quite a sophisticated health equipment. The problem is bad management. Doctors and nurses are doing a great job under the circumstances they have to work in.
Some years ago, the hospital was greatly helped by the “Kings Fund” and received an accreditation which it lost a few years later. Another accreditation is sought but in the state the hospital is in, this is doubtful.
In any case, it needs political will to build a new hospital, with funds that will have to come from the continent. In spite of all adversity, the group felt that we shall get a new hospital eventually. It also remains to be seen how the new administration is doing its job.
We discussed John Strelecky’s book “Big Five for Live” again. Ri. suggested that the group do some work in this direction, to find a common purpose for the group, in order not to lose focus and achieve meaningful goals. This might be achieved in one or two meetings. There wasn’t much enthusiasm for this; some members think that to speak about their purpose of life, is too personal. People might not want to have a focus, and it might change with time.
Ri.will approach ECM to see if he can win them as a client for a pilot Project
D. recommended the following TED talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_haugen_the_hidden_reason_for_poverty_the_world_needs_to_address_now
It delivers a clear argument that help against poverty, in whatever form, cannot succeed if the recipients live in an environment of danger and violence.. Security can be bought by the rich but the poor need it most of all.
Dennis also recommends a truly beautiful video (30 minutes), based on a short story by French author Jean Giorno,:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_7yEPNUXsU
There is an excerpt of the book and background info on the author here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Planted_Trees
Visit to the Municipal Fire Station in Funchal
Dec 19, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: 20. February 2010, Bombeiros, fire equipment, fire manual, fire protection, Funchal, ideas for the island, madeira consorcio, madeira think tank, Monte, Municipal Fire Station, Portugal
The group went to visit the local Municipal Fire Station in Funchal to the North of Dolce Vita.
This was a very interesting visit. Chief Samuel, one of the shift leaders with many years of experience, showed us the station and the cars and gave us honest answers to a lot of prickly questions.
The highlights:
The team has 137 staff (it should have 140)
26 persons are always on call on 12 hour shifts.
The response time is very quick, especially if you do not call 112 (officially what you have to do) but directly to them (291 200930).
The city is divided into two parts:
West: Municipal Bombeiros,
East: Voluntary Bombeiros, but if there is a fire in the Zone Velha or around the Cathedral, both units always respond.
The staff have a gym, a canteen (most bring their own food) , a multi-purpose room with internet and sleeping quarters.
A regular fireman/woman earns around 600-700€ month, a Chief around 1100€ (they say, brut, less taxes…)
Nothing much may happen in a shift but they have to be alert. Tension is palpable in the building and the courtyard.
The equipment:
There is never enough money around to have the best equipment and maintenance but this is a complaint every Fire Station in the world voices. The FNC Volunteers have worse equipment, though.
A lot of equipment is bought from Germany. The base of the cars may be coming from Mercedes but the top is built by a Portuguese company, Jacinto. They are very good at custom building fire equipment and sell their fire engines all over Europe. (Land Rovers are not the favourite Fireman car, they are being replaced over time.)
There are smaller cars to check out a situation – the Fire Chief has always to be there first.
They have one car to free people trapped in cars – this is the worst job they have to do
Ladder cars:
We have the biggest ladder in Portugal (55m) this is the second biggest ladder in Europe. Think of hotels like Pestana Carlton…
There are regular Fire Trainings in the hotels for the firemen by the Fire Departments. These trainings serve also to check the pipes and hydrants. All hotels have to have an internal “first response” Fire Team.
Water tanks:
All cars have water tanks of various sizes, the biggest contains 32000 l water (all hydrant water is fresh water)
They also come with foam which is very effective but expensive. The Station has a tank of 1000 l foam.
The pipes are surprisingly slim; water pumps can be taken out by hand to be placed where they can be connected to external water supplies.
The Station also has a training tower to train for high-rise fires. The staff has lot of training sessions to keep them in shape and respond to new situations or regulation.
Ambulances:
They have ambulances just for emergencies; the Volunteers and other services (Red Cross) take care of non-urgent transports. In the time we were there, the ambulances moved out twice. – no fire alarms.
E., with his dire experience in Monte last year, spoke about the shortcomings during the situation (hydrants blocked, lagoon water not used, no help from the fire department) Chief Samuel acknowledged this.
Chief Samuel confirmed that there was an order to save the Monte Church – nowadays; such an order could not be imposed on the Firemen anymore.
On February 20, 2010, contrary to the rumours, only 42 persons died, and nobody drowned in the underground parking garages.
The Fire Department has its own water gauge in the mountains so that they know when a flood can be expected downtown.
In Dolce Vita, the order was to evacuate the parking, and people tried to take out their cars but the “guards” wouldn’t open the gates without payment so more cars were rendered unusable
We gave Chief Samuel our Fire Manual.
Christmas Dinner
Dec 7, 2014 at 11:50 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: 2015, Austrian cook, christmas, dinner, madeira consorcio
Next week, we shall have our annual Madeira Consorcio Christmas Dinner, prepared by one of the best Austrian cooks on the island. Be envious, people!
Let’s see what 2015 brings us… we have three new members and the group is invigorated by their input.
See you in 2015!
A great place to relax with friends
Sep 5, 2014 at 10:11 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: be positive, discussion, madeira consorcio, principles, regina
The core of the group had a great evening in Regina’s place in Tabua yesterday, with many heated discussions. As we are not working along the principles of the Madeira Consorcio anymore – be positive; problems are only obstacles – we can complain away at everything and everybody.
Regina’s farm has beautiful gardens, lots of happy crickets and a wonderful view over the sea far down.
62 reunião Madeira Consorcio ToBinG 17.7.2014
Jul 20, 2014 at 9:36 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: beach basket, leicester university, Madeira, madeira consorcio, ombudsman, organic permaculture, permaculture, Portugal, provedor de justica, putney school
62 Reuniao Madeira Consorcio ToBinG 17.7.2014
Tivemos como sempre, tivemos uma conversa interessante!
D está muito decepcionado com a reação que recebemos dos madeirenses às nossas iniciativas. Ele não ouviu falar do Continente, e U não tem sucesso com o Pingo Doce, para ser autorizado a distribuir os nossos manuais de incêndio nos supermercados. D também está decepcionado com os produtores de cesta de praia; precisavam demasiado tempo para produzir a amostra em tamanho natural, e isso não é feito para as especificações que queríamos.
A Madeira Consorcio agora tem poucos membros e, como podemos ver, desde que começamos nosso trabalho, muitos de nós estão decepcionados como D, e muitos acham que é um desperdício da nossa energia para tentar ajudar os madeirenses. Nós também temos dificuldades para encontrar novos membros pró-ativas com o entusiasmo necessário.
O que vai mudar agora:
A Madeira Consorcia estará mudando de direção. U e V vão continuar com o projeto das ervas e U vai tentar terminar o projeto de cesta de praia. Então teremos uma ou duas reuniões por mês, em vários lugares, inclusive em nossas casas, para falar sobre as questões que nos interessam.
O que não irá alterar:
Muitos de nós tornaram-se amigos; vamos ficar em contato, e falar e falar até nossos ouvidos cair, porque ainda temos bons cérebros para discutir questões difíceis!
Notícias:
cesta: U vai tentar convencer P para colocá-lo na área de recepção para que P encomenda cestas de praia para os seus hotéis de praia. Mas, então, eles vão provavelmente comprar as da China, como aos produtores aqui são muito caros e não são muito interessados na idéia.
U falou sobre a resposta que recebeu do Provedor de Justiça (Ombudsman), em relação ao seu pedido de atualização do simulador de Pensões da Segurança Social (funciona apenas para um ano de previsão agora).
O Provedor não é de opinião que o simulador deve dar às pessoas a oportunidade de calcular a sua pensão para os anos vindouros. Ele diz que não se deve incutir nas pessoas um sentimento de esperança irrealista … para uma boa pensão, isso é. O grupo disse que o Estado não quer que os cidadãos perceberem o valor reduzido das suas pensão no final. Por outro lado, se os cidadãos sabem do problema agora. poderiam tomar já agora precauções e (se possível) começar um fundo de previdência privada.
A pergunta: qual o instrumento mais eficaz para defender os cidadãos em tais situações? Deco parece boa, mas a experiência mostrou que não é muito eficaz, também. O Livro de Reclamações é ainda a melhor ferramenta para obter serviços (mas não instituições) para melhorar os seus serviços. Precisamos de uma ferramenta contra as instituições.
Falamos sobre o interesse de outras nações para copiar o modelo “alemão” de aprendizagem, que combina formação teórica e prática. Isso depende muito de uma boa colaboração entre as escolas e pequena e média indústria de tamanho e não pode ser facilmente aplicado em outros países. Uma exceção é a Putney School, perto de Boston: dê uma olhada no seu site e, especificamente, em suas grandes crenças fundamentais: http://www.putneyschool.org/content/fundamental-beliefs
A boa notícia:
E teve outra temporada de sucesso de seu curso Oceanográfico com a Universidade de Leicester; seu coordenador quer enviar mais alunos no próximo ano. E também vai tentar criar um outro curso para a permacultura orgânica. Portanto, há uma Universidade de Verão em desenvolvimento, mas, neste momento, apenas para os alunos, e não para os turistas.
Outras informações:
Ro está na Bulgária, no momento, participando de uma conferência de permacultura: http://www.eupc.eu/
A cura quântica: ter um olhar para http://www.quantumk.co.uk/
A Câmara Municipal do Funchal está agora aberto ao público: durante a semana, os visitantes podem, para o custo de 3,50 € /adulto, visitar o Assembleia , o “Salão Nobre”, utilizado para comemorações – este é o lugar onde você iria receber um prêmio da cidade se você fosse para obter um – e outras salas. As visitas guiadas começam às 10h, 11h, 02:00, 15:00 e 04:00. Uma vez que as obras terminaram na torre do edifício, esta será incluída também. U irá organizar uma visita lá para o grupo em agosto.
Nossa próxima reunião ToBinG é no dia 21 de agosto. No futuro, este será um grupo de discussão, para o benefício dos membros participantes. Ainda assim, grandes idéias virá-lo!
62 reunião Madeira Consorcio ToBinG 17.7.2014
As always, we had an interesting conversation!
D is very disappointed with the reaction we received from the Madeirans to our initiatives. He has not heard from Continente, and U has no success with Pingo Doce, to be allowed to distribute our Fire Manuals in the supermarkets. He is also disappointed with the beach basket producers; it took way to long to produce the life size sample, and it is not made to the specifications we wanted.
The Madeira Consorcio now has few members and as we can see, since we started our work, many of us are disappointed as D, and many feel that it is a waste of our energy to try to help the Madeirans. We also have difficulties to find new pro-active members with the necessary enthusiasm.
What will change now:
The Madeira Consorcia will be changing direction. U and V will continue with the herbs project and U will try to finish the Beach Basket project. Then we shall have one or two meetings a month in various places, also in our homes, to talk about issues that interest us.
What will not change:
Many of us have become friends; we are going to stay in touch, and talk and talk until our ears fall off, because we still have good brains to discuss difficult issues!
News:
Basket: U will try to get P to place it in the Reception area so that P gets beach baskets for their hotels. But they will then probably buy from China, as our people are too expensive and not very interested in the idea.
U spoke about the response she received from the Provedor de Justica (our kind of Ombudsman) in regards to her request for a update of the Social Security Pension simulator (it works only for one year ahead).
The Provedor is not of the opinion that the simulator should give people the chance to calculate their pension for years ahead. He says one should not instill in people a sense of unrealistic hope … for a good pension, that is. The group said that the State does not want the citizens to know how small their pension will be in the end. On the other hand, if the citizens know of the problem they could take precautions already now and (if possible) start a private pension fund. The question: which instrument is most effective to defend the citizens in such situations? Deco looks good but experience showed that is not very effective, either. The livro de reclamações is still the best tool to get services (but not institutions) to improve on their services. We need a tool against institutions.
We spoke about the interest of other nations to copy the “German” model of apprenticeship, which combines theoretical and practical training. This depends very much on good collaboration between schools and small & medium sized industry and cannot be easily applied in other countries. An exception is the Putney School near Boston: have a look at their website and specifically, at their great fundamental beliefs: http://www.putneyschool.org/content/fundamental-beliefs
The good News:
E had another successful run of his Oceanographic course with Leicester University; their co-ordinator wants to send more students next year. E will also try to set up another course for organic permaculture.
Other info:
Ro is in Bulgaria at the moment, taking part in a permaculture conference:http://www.eupc.eu/
Quantum healing: have a look at http://www.quantumk.co.uk/
The Funchal City Hall is now open to the public: during the workweek, visitors can for the cost of 3.50€/adult, visit the Assembly Hall, the “Noble Hall”, used for commemorations – this is where you would receive an award form the city if you ever were to get one – and other rooms. The guided visits start at 10am, 11am, 2pm, 3pm and 4pm. Once the works are finished on the tower of the building, this will be included as well. U will organize a visit there for the group in August. Let`s go!
Our next ToBinG meeting is on August 21. In the future, this will be a discussion group, for the benefit of the participating members. Still, great ideas will come of it!!
55 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (ToBinG) 13.3.2014 EXCERPT
Mar 16, 2014 at 11:09 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: business plan, Contraditorio, debt crisis, debt slavery, inheritance tax, madeira consorcio, Portugal, Think Tank
55 reunião Madeira Consorcio (ToBinG) 13.3.2014 – English version below
Tivemos uma discussão interessante sobre como conter o Governo, o que foi inspirado por uma discussão igualmente sedutora acontecendo em Contraditório (http://www.contraditorio.pt/) em Lisboa.
Primeiro alguns outros detalhes :
O sistema solar de D & MS está agora a trabalhar muito bem. Eles tiveram que obter algumas baterias novas e mais poderosas. Ainda não tentaram ir sem o fornecimento EDP. Eles descobriram que é ilegal em Portugal a vender eletricidade excedente (executando o metro para trás) à EDP e ao mesmo tempo a produção de electricidade para consumo doméstico, por isso só estão produzindo para si mesmos.
OCesto: o topo está quase completo, depois tem que ir para o estofador a ser equipado com o tecido. D tem um contato na Ponta do Sol que está ansiosa para ver o protótipo, mas também temos P. como potencial comprador.
U escreveu um plano de negócios en Inglês (com um software EUA www.enloop.com) para o projeto de DV e enviou-o para vários intermediários de investidores. O software, sendo da América, é um pouco engraçado: uma Lda obtem uma classificação pior, quando o projeto é baseado em um único proprietário, o “rating” fica melhor. Não tem entrada para efeitos de IVA , mas oferece um PDF profissional, tudo de graça. Extras, como deixar de fora o logotipo de Enloop , precisa ser pago. Recomendável!
U está em contato com o Pingo Doce para ver se eles nos permitiriam distribuir panfletos com o Manual de Fogo nos supermercados, devemos ouvir algo na próxima semana. D está em contato com o Continente, mas a pessoa responsável não estava disponível até o momento.
A discussão:
M de Contraditiorio sugeriu que os impostos devem ser dedicados a fins específicos, de duas maneiras:
1. Imposto sobre gasolina → manutenção de estradas etc; impostos de tabaco e álcool – > serviços de saúde, etc; os impostos de luxo → ….
2.IRS: o cidadão pode determinar percentagens dos seus impostos para ir para todos os departamentos, por exemplo: 10% para a defesa, 30% para a educação, etc …. até 100% é atingido. Assim mostra de forma muito evidente a importância que cidadãos coloquem sobre os serviços que consomem, e capacitá-los para governar seu estado. Os serviços públicos que, portanto, recebem pequenas quantidades de receitas fiscais têm de apertar o cinto. Se este, em seguida, resulta numa falta de serviços, os cidadãos irão aumentar a sua distribuição. Como na Califórnia com seus referendos, os cidadãos terão uma curva de aprendizado a respeito de porque os impostos precisam ser levantadas, não baixados.
3.Para tornar a gestão mais fácil, isso poderia ser decidido por referendo com um ano de antecedência. Em seguida, os escritórios de administração saberiam antecipadamente quanto dinheiro eles irão receber.
E disse que o Brasil teve um pequeno imposto sobre todas as transações de dinheiro por um tempo; esta pequena quantidade foi suficiente para cobrir o défice e restaurar o pote de pensão da Segurança Social. Em seguida, o Estado tentou usá-lo para outros meios, mas foi parado pelos cidadãos.
Também falavamos sobre um controle do sector bancário, proibindo qualquer comércio (“Os mercados ” são baseados em comércio) com os bens que não têm contra-valor tangível (bens e hipotecas são bons, Credit Default Swaps, etc não são). Mas Títulos – IOUs ( “Eu devo a você” ) não são tangíveis e podem ser necessários no mercado , pois eles podem ser limitados por uma regra para não vendê-los após a primeira venda.
Outros comentários – não podemos estar sempre otimista :
GM tinha de fato sido nacionalizado devido à crise bancária, bem como alguns bancos. Os EUA e a Europa estão resgatando os bancos e alguns especialistas do banco dizem que na verdade esta crise ainda temos hoje não foi devido ao excesso de gastos – o que aconteceu também – mas a crise atual realmente ainda é devido ao resgate do sistema bancário.
Países como a Grécia e Portugal estão agora em escravidão por dívida. Isso era previsível e talvez até mesmo feito deliberadamente pelos países mais ricos da UE quando começaram o euro.
O dólar ainda governa o mundo. Nos EUA, os cidadãos estão na escravidão do cartão de crédito, isso funciona em todos os paises.
Há demasiado políticos que trabalham para os bancos.
O sistema de Segurança Social já não funciona, porque as crianças costumavam para pagar os próprios pais, agora estáo pagando por muitas pessoas, e os dados demográficos não são em nosso favor.
D disse que, se os EUA não tinham eliminado o imposto sucessório sobre pessoas ricas em 2000, os EUA poderiam ter eliminado o IVA e Imposto de Renda em 2020 ou 2025. O mesmo iria para Portugal.
A UE deve instalar uma Agência de Rating de Crédito Europeia para compensar os danos das três agências norte-americanas estão fazendo para a Europa, olhe para esta palestra do TED: http://www.ted.com/talks/annette_heuser_the_3_agencies_with_the_power_to_make_or_break_economies
Por último, mas não menos importante:
E disse que o dinheiro deve ser visto como um produto de trabalho, mesmo amor, e não só como um meio de pagamento.
Vivemos em um mundo frágil , somos nem sempre conscientes disso, porque é assustador.
A nossa organização :
Nosso Blog está em https://madeiraconsorcio.com/
Facebook é a http://www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/
A próxima reunião Agricultura será no dia 3 de abril
O grupo ToBinG se reunirá no dia 26 de março
55 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (ToBinG) 13.3.2014
We had an exciting discussion about how to curb the Government; this was inspired by an equally enticing discussion going on in Contraditório in Lisbon (http://www.contraditorio.pt/)
First some other details:
D & MSs solar system is now working very well. They had to get some new and more powerful batteries. They have not tried going without the EDP supply yet. They found that it is illegal in Portugal to sell surplus electricity (by running the meter backwards) to the EDP while also producing electricity for home consumption so there are only producing for themselves.
The Basket: the top is nearing completion, then it has to go to the upholsterer to be fitted with the fabric. D has a contact in Ponta do Sol who is keen to see the prototype, but we still have P. as potential buyer as well.
U wrote an English business plan (with an US software www.enloop.com) for the DV project and sent it on to several investor intermediaries. The software, being from America, is a bit funny: Lda’s get a worse rating as if the project is based on a sole proprietor – and it has no entry for VAT but it delivers a professionally made PDF, all for free. Extras, such as leaving out the Enloop logo, need to be paid for. To be recommended!
U is in touch with Pingo Doce supermarket to see if they would allow us to distribute pamphlets with the Fire Manual in the supermarkets, we should hear something next week. D is in touch with Continente but the responsible person was not available so far.
THE Discussion:
M from Contraditiorio suggested that taxes should be dedicated to specific purposes, in two ways:
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Fuels tax → road maintenance etc, tobacco and alcohol taxes -> Health services etc, Luxury taxes → ….
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Income tax: the citizen can determine the %age of 100% of his taxes to go to all departments, e.g. 10% for defense; 30% for education,…. etc until 100% is covered. This would show in a very obvious way the importance the citizens place on the services they consume, and empower them to rule their state: Public services which therefore receive small amounts of tax revenues have to tighten their belts. IF this then causes a lack of services, citizens will increase their distribution. As in California with its referendums, citizens will have a learning curve as to why taxes need to be raised, not lowered.
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To make the management easier, this could be decided by referendum for one year in advance. Then the admin offices would know on advance how much money they can work with.
E said that Brazil had a very small tax on all money transactions for a time, this tiny amount was enough to cover the deficit and restore the Social Security pension pot. Then the state tried to use it for other means but was stopped by the citizens.
We also spoke about reigning in the banking sector by forbidding any trade (“the Markets” are based on trade) with goods that have no tangible counter-value (goods and mortgages are fine, Credit Default Swaps etc. are not). But Titles – IOUs (“I owe you”) are not tangible and might be needed in the market; they could be limited by a rule to not sell them on after the first sale.
Other comments – we cannot always be optimistic:
GM had in fact been nationalized due to the banking crisis, as well as some banks. The US and Europe are rescuing the banks and some bank experts say that indeed this crisis we still have today was not due to overspending – which happened as well – but the current crisis is still due to the rescue of the banking system.
Countries like Greece and Portugal are now in debt slavery. This was foreseeable and maybe even done deliberately by the richer EU countries when they started the euro.
The dollar still rules the world. In the USA, the citizens are in credit card slavery, it works everywhere.
There are way too many politicians who work for banks.
The Social Security system is not working anymore because children used to pay for their parents, now there are paying for too many people, and demographics are not in our favor.
D said that if the US had not eliminated the inheritance tax on wealthy people in 2000, the US could have eliminated VAT and Income Tax by 2020 or 2025. The same would go for Portugal.
The EU is supposed to install a European Credit Rating Agency to offset the damages the three American agencies are doing to Europe, have a look at this TED talk: (http://www.ted.com/talks/annette_heuser_the_3_agencies_with_the_power_to_make_or_break_economies)
Last but not least:
E said that money should be seen as a product of labour, not only as a means to pay something.
We live in a fragile world, we are just not always aware of it because it is frightening.
Our organisation:
Our Blog is at https://madeiraconsorcio.com/
Facebook is at www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/
The next Agriculture meeting will be on April 3.
The ToBinG group will meet on March 26.
53 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (ToBinG) 13.2.2014 EXCERPT
Feb 15, 2014 at 11:23 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: complaints book, madeira consorcio, public petition
53 Reunião Madeira Consorcio (ToBinG) 13.2.2014 English version below
Falavamos sobre várias maneiras de fazer petições e queixas ao público, e envolver outras pessoas para se juntar aos nossos esforços.
Também falavamos sobre o site www.PeticaoPublica.com. U escreveu ao site para descobrir quem está por trás disso, mas não obteve uma resposta satisfatória. Poderia ser o próprio Estado, o que significa que o governo pode manipular os resultados e suprimir petições que não gostam, ou pode ser um grupo de lobby ou de um partido. U vai escrever para eles novamente.
Há também dois outros sites: www.change.org e www.petitiononline.com, ambos internacionais e não especificamente portugueses.
O livro de reclamações é uma ferramenta poderosa para reclamações. Como esta é uma forte ferramenta, a empresa / agência em questão deve sempre ter a chance de recuar e acertar as coisas antes da entrada é feita no livro, De. tive um pneu furado uma vez em um carro de aluguer, quando ele devolveu-o, o funcionário perguntou (conforme as instruções) para o pagamento do pneu. De. exigiu o livro, mas como ele tinha que pegar os óculos para preencher a denúncia, a rapariga teve a chance de chamar o chefe, que autorizou-a a recuar.
Horário do Funchal tem um formulário de reclamação, assim como eles gostam: exige todos os detalhes completos do cliente, além de até três testemunhas … . Achamos que seria melhor entregar reclamações a eles não nos termos deles, mas de outra maneira, a fim de obter a sua total atenção e tê-los realmente considerar as mudanças necessárias.
U completou o formulário com campos que podem ser preenchidos com PC e assim, o formulário fica reutilizável.
Em qualquer caso, deveríamos usar uma tecnologia moderna e não aceitar as velhas regras que foram estabelecidos da parte das “autoridades”. A mentalidade Português é, embora os dias de Salazar estão muito longe, ainda temeroso quando protestar. Hoje em dia, nada muito pode acontecer a alguém em Portugal que faz uma queixa ou tem reclamações.
Costumava ser diferente. MJ contou-nos a história do início de Amnesty International: O advogado britânico Peter Benenson estava no café ” Brasileira ” em 1961, quando um estudante, após uma discussão com os seus amigos, pulou e gritou algo como “Nós queremos liberdade de expressão!” Imediatamente, foi preso por três policiais à paisana (aparentemente, o Café estava sempre sob vigilância) e levado para a prisão. No site da Amnesty International, diz:
“1961: O Advogado britânico Peter Benenson lançou uma campanha mundial, “Apelo para a Amnesty de 1961”, com a publicação de um artigo no jornal Observer. O artigo, “Os Prisioneiros Esquecidos” , está escrito que ele aprendeu de dois estudantes portugueses que foram presos por levantar um brinde à liberdade. Reproduzido em jornais de todo o mundo, o seu apelo marcou o início da Amnesty International.”
Outras novas idéias:
O Turismo deve organizar um concurso de Chefs de cozinha para chegar a novas tradições para os restaurantes, por exemplo: o Couvert deve ser servido apenas com alimentos saudáveis, produzidos localmente, tais como frutas secas e nozes, manteiga sem recipientes de plástico e sem presunto vindo da Espanha, para dar uma nova dinâmica aos menus. Assim, o objetivo seria o de promover a comida local, tudo sem plástico e não importado.
Teremos a nossa visita ao MBT em 20 de fevereiro às 10 horas.
G2G: Governo ao comércio com Governo: os governos estão vendendo sistemas de administração para outros países. De. disse-nos que o sistema fiscal Português foi adquirida da Dinamarca.
Outras notícias:
U convidou Sr. Luis para nossa próxima reunião ToBinG em 26 de fevereiro para ver como ele está fazendo com a nossa idéia de produzir açúcar. A produção começa na primeira semana de abril.
D. vai organizar uma outra reunião com CM uma vez que ele se sente melhor. Aparentemente, ele está pensando em voltar para o Reino Unido por razões de saúde, mas ainda podemos encontrar alguém ou um grupo a assumir as suas ideias para a Madeira.
Este fim de semana, o nosso Manual de Prevenção de Incêndios será publicado no MAIS / Diario, com informações detalhadas sobre o nosso grupo. Então não perca a comprar o Diario no domingo!
A nossa organização :
Nosso Blog está em https://madeiraconsorcio.com/
Facebook é a www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/
O grupo ToBinG se reunirá em 26 de fevereiro
O grupo de Agricultura se reunirá no dia 6 de março
53 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (ToBinG) 13.2.2014
We spoke about several ways to make petitions and complaints public, and hopefully, to get other people onboard to support our efforts.
We also spoke about the” Peticao Publica” site. U wrote to the site to find out who is behind it but did not get a satisfactory answer. It could be the State itself, which means the Government could manipulate the results and suppress petitions they do not like, or it could be a lobby group or a party. U will write to them again.
There are also two other sites: www.change.org and www.petitiononline.com, both international and not specifically Portuguese.
The complaints book is a powerful tool for complaints. As this is a strong tool, the company/agency in question should always get a chance to back off and set things right before the entry is made into the book, De. has a tire blowout once on a rental car; when he returned it, the clerk asked (as instructed) for a payment of the tire, De. asked for the book, but as he had to get his glasses to fill out the complaint, the girl had the chance to call the boss who authorized her to back off.
Horário do Funchal has a complaints form, just as they like it, will full client details, plus even three witnesses… but it would be better to get complaints to them not on their terms but in another way, in order to get their full attention and have them really consider the necessary changes.
U scanned the form, which can be overlaid with fillable fields (not handwritten, more professional) and re-used.
In any case, we should use modern technology and not stick to old rules to be in conformity with the authorities. The Portuguese are, although the days of Salazar are long gone, still fearful when protesting. Nothing much can happen in Portugal to somebody who speaks up or complaints. It used to be different; MJ told us the Lisbon/Amnesty Story: The British lawyer Peter Benenson was in the “Brasileira” Café in 1961 when a student, after a discussion with his friends, jumped up and shouted something like “We want freedom of speech!” Right away, he was arrested by three plainclothes officers (apparently, the Café was always under surveillance) and taken to prison. In Amnesty’s site, it says:
British lawyer Peter Benenson launches a worldwide campaign, “Appeal for Amnesty 1961”, with the publication of an article in the Observer newspaper. The article, “The Forgotten Prisoners”, is written after he learns of two Portuguese students who were imprisoned for raising a toast to freedom. Reprinted in newspapers across the world, his appeal marks the beginning of Amnesty International
Other new ideas:
We shall have our visit to MDB on February 20 at 10 am.
G2G: Government to Government trade: Governments are selling admin systems to other countries. Dennis told us that the Portuguese tax system was acquired from Denmark.
Other news:
U invited Sr. Luis to our next ToBinG meeting on February 26 to see how he is doing with our idea of producing sugar. The production starts in the first week of April.
D will organize another meeting with CM once he feels better. Apparently, he is thinking of going back to the UK for health reasons, but we might still find somebody or a group to take up his ideas for Madeira
This weekend, ou Fire Prevention Manual will be publishd in the MAIS / Diario edition, with a detailed info about our group so do not miss to buy the Diario on Sunday!
Our organisation:
Our Blog is at https://madeiraconsorcio.com/
Facebook is at www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/
The ToBinG group will meet on Feb 26
The Agriculture group will meet on March 6
49 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (ToBinG) 9.1.2013 Excerpt
Jan 12, 2014 at 12:24 pm | Posted in Posts | Leave a commentTags: adventure, Agriculture, agriculture in madeira, ideas for madeira, Madeira, madeira consorcio, summer university, Think Tank, tourism
49 reunião Madeira Consórcio ( ToBinG ) 9.1.2014 English version below
Olá equipe,
tivemos uma discussão interessante com Colin de www.soadventure.org
” SoAdventure ” é uma organização guarda-chuva, começou como uma fundação em 2009. Tem cerca de 500 membros individuais em 20 países. promove excursões para o selvagem (florestas) para os jovens a dar-lhes uma mudança de desenvolver uma auto-estima saudável, aprender a lidar com suas inseguranças e apoiar uns aos outros num grupo. (Similar ao Movimento Outward Bound ( http://www. outwardbound.org / e http://www.outwardbound.net/ )
Como Colin vive aqui agora, ele quer começar um movimento na Madeira e estávamos tentando obter um aperto sobre a sua ideia para ver como podemos ajudá-lo. Basicamente, ele não quer organizar este movimento “Madeira outdoor” ele mesmo, mas pode dar informações a um potencial líder como organizar essas excursões. Sua fundação tem membros que fazem isso em outros países. Também poderiamos pedir outros organizações de Outward Bound para consultoria.
O objetivo do Colin é alto: ele quer contrariar o desenvolvimento do mundo ocidental que esta virado para o egoísmo, a ganância e o consumismo. Quer abrir as mentes jovens para o fato de que somos parte da natureza, não separar dele, e que podemos viver sem ilusões criadas pelo grandeza. O grupo sentiu que este é um alvo demasiado alto, mas podemos tentar fazer com que os adolescentes ficam scientes de que podem escolher um caminho para a honestidade consigo e com os outros, e superar seus medos. Um jovem que vê que pode sobreviver na floresta, está bem equipado com auto-estima para sobreviver qualquer outra coisa. As crianças devem ser inteligentes, mas também humildes.
E. sugeriu incluir a idéia de Colin em nossos planos para a Universidade de Verão.
Com a idéia de Colin, poderíamos acrescentar cursos para professores sobre como organizar excursões nas nossa florestas. Poderíamos definir isso como cursos com fins lucrativos, mas com um certo número de lugares que vão para os madeirenses gratuitamente. Teria de ser publicado bem, não só no exterior (para angariar turistas que pagam), mas também na Madeira, para ganhar aceitação na população.
Nossa idéia é oferecer uma oportunidade para os jovens a ficar longe de suas famílias e para ganhar valores honestos e entender que o apoio á comunidade (e não apenas a família) dá mais valia a cada pessoa. Esta atitude iria trabalhar contra a corrupção.
A iniciativa pode ser também destinado ás escolas. Todas as crianças têm duas meses de férias no verão; geralmente, os pais estão felizes em enviá-los para campos de férias por que ele teem que trabalhar. Nestes acampamentos de verão as crianças também recebem um almoço diariamente; na verdade, na Madeira, não é sempre fornecido por os pais com baixos rendimentos!
Teremos outra reunião com Colin em 23 de janeiro para desenvolver este projecto.
A nossa organização :
Nosso Blog está em https://madeiraconsorcio.com/
Facebook é a http://www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/
O grupo de Agricultura se reunirá em 16 de janeiro
O grupo ToBinG se reunirá em 23 de janeiro
49 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (ToBinG) 9.1.2013
Hello Team,
We had an interesting discussion with Colin from www.soadventure.org
“SoAdventure” is an umbrella organization, started as a foundation in 2009. It has around 500 individual members in 20 countries. It advocates outings into the wilderness for youngsters to give them a change to develop a healthy self-esteem, learn to deal with their insecurities and to support each other in a group.(similar to the outward Bound Movement (http://www.outwardbound.org/ and http://www.outwardbound.net/ )
As Colin lives here now, he wants to start a movement in Madeira and we were trying to get a grip on his idea to see how we could help him. Basically, he doesn’t want to organize this Madeira-outdoor-bound movement himself but he can give information to a potential leader on how to organize these excursions. His foundation has members who do this in other countries. We could also ask another Outward Bound organization to assist us.
Colin’s aim is high: he wants to counter the development the western world is taking toward egoism, greed and consumerism, and open the youngsters’ minds to the fact that we are part of nature, not separate from it, and that we can live without man-made delusions of grandeur. The group felt that this is too high a target but we can try to make teenagers aware that they can choose a path to honesty with themselves and with others and overcome their fears. A youngster who sees that he can survive in the woods, is well equipped with self-esteem to survive anything else. Children should be smart but also humble.
E. suggested to include Colin’s idea in our plans for a Summer University.
With Colin’s idea, we could add courses for teachers on how to organize outward-bound excursions. We could set this up as a for-profit measure but with a certain number of places going to Madeirans for free. It would have to be published well, not only abroad (get get paying tourists) but also in Madeira, to gain acceptance in the population.
Our idea is to offer an opportunity to youngsters to get away from their families and to gain honest values and to understand that to support the community (not just the family) is to support themselves. This attitude would work against corruption.
Teaching teachers could also be aimed at schools. All kids have two month summer holidays; usually, parents are happy to send them to summer camps are they have to work. In Summer camps the children also receive a daily lunch; actually in Madeira, it is not always provided by parents of low income!
We shall have another meeting with Colin on Jan 23rd to develop this further.Our organisation:
Our Blog is at https://madeiraconsorcio.com/
Facebook is at www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/
The Agriculture group will meet on Jan 16
The ToBinG group will meet on Jan 23
Happy holidays
Dec 22, 2013 at 10:30 am | Posted in Posts | 1 CommentTags: madeira consorcio, Think Tank
The Madeira Consorcio Think Tank wishes all readers a Merry Christmas and a happy and successful New Year!
We had an eventful 2013 and we are looking to learn more, explore deeper and develop more practical ideas in 2014.
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