83 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 17.9.2016

September 18, 2016 at 11:11 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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The Bread Project:

V gave E. a “plastic” bag, to store bread and keep it fresh. The bag, produced in Austria, is not made with oil but of plant material, and decomposes easily; it can be re-used several times. The bag can be printed on. The producer is www.naku.at.We discussed the  logo and design for linen bags for sale along with the bread.

We also spoke about the support we want to give the Escola de S..

We shall propose to their Team to create a blog for them, based on the text that we developed after the July meeting with them. U is going to send the approved content to Do. to look at. E.has photos; we need those for a blog. U will ask Ma. for their bank details so we can perhaps also add a PayPal donation button.

We also spoke about fundraising and how to go about it

Do. said the most important issue for fundraising is to answer the questions on what the project is and what they need. The fundraisers also need to propose adequate gifts as thank you for the donations received, e.g.

  • a postcard with children’s paintings for a donation of 5€,
  • for 10€ a donor would get a mug,
  • and for 25€ he would get a yearbook,
  • for higher amounts he would receive a mention of his name as sponsor on a (movable) plaque in the school.

An ongoing fundraising effort would be better that an occasional action, with the receipt of money from time to time.

“Teaching” support

There we have many options. S.used to go to her children’s school and read a poem which would inspire the children to make a drawing/painting about the topic, S. then gave assisted them in this. Such visits can lead to the composition of a yearbook, also as Thank You to donors.

Rui A.could do physics experiments with them, and so on…

Additional info.

Open letter from a Danish Newspaper to Mark Zuckerberg: http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kommentar/Dear-Mark-I-am-writing-this-to-inform-you-that-I-shall-not-comply-with-your-requirement-to-remove-this-picture-604156b.html

We have a recycling shop behind the Forum, “Mundo Sustentavel”, They accept used goods for household, decoration & more and resell them; the proceeds are split between the seller and the shop: Tel 291619768,  info@mundo-sustentavel.com

Frente Mar has some shops out for public tender for rent in/near the Lido Swimming pools, several artists are working there.

The list of 10 vegetarian-friendly restaurants in Funchal :

http://frommadeiratomars.com/pt/10-vegetarian-friendly-restaurants-in-madeira/

D & S like “Olive” in Oudinot best, the restaurant needs business so we should all go there and recommend it.

Also very good: “Tipografia” in the Castanheiro Boutique Hotel. “Mania de Cozinha” in S. Pedro is closed due to fire damage.

Our next meeting will be in mid-October,

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73 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 16.9. 2015

September 21, 2015 at 8:35 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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73 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 16.9. 2015

The Bread Project: The new semester has started, and E. has to focus on the university job at this time; however, since last time, we had a few more suggestions for a good Name.

In any case, E.will need a good business partner; an artist usually isn’t very good at managing his own Project.

U.gave him a contact, Sr. José also bakes only with sourdough. The new “Goji” shop in Rua Queimada de Cima would be a good outlet for bread sales. They sell dried fruit, spices and other goodies.

Sa.said that IKEA has some cool packaging which might be nice for E.’s bread, she will let us have a photo of it.

Reforestation on Porto Santo:

Gr. and Sa. are in contact with each other about an urgently needed reforestation project for Porto Santo. A Portuguese scientist has written a good book about it. We as a group should try to promote such an event with actions.

The Porto Santo residents do not seem to be interested to reforest their island, which is basically a pile of sand, and they don’t even recycle. The water table is sinking and the water is poisoned by the lawn fertilizers used on the Golf course. With the planting of trees, the water table will improve.

U. mentioned that the Government is not very good at organizing tree-planting with the unemployed, they had such an event once in Madeira, They have to combine place, date, time, people, tree seedlings, bus transport, lunch, gloves etc and something will inevitably go wrong. Then the Madeirans have the tendency to give up, instead of trying to improve the system for the next time.

U. thinks tree planting could be handed to the Jeep Safari tours organized by travel agencies on Porto Santo: give them the seedlings and encourage the tourists to plant a few trees in designated areas, afterwards cared of by the Government gardeners. The Ferry could show the respective info during the trip and encourage the tourists to help planting. This should work well!

Here is the link again to a video with a nice story about a man who planted trees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_7yEPNUXsU

U. thinks that we should place advertisements in the Diario with our ideas. If they don’t get out, nothing will happen but if they do, one or the other can trigger a good response, even from the Government. U. will work on such ads, to better illustrate the idea.

We also spoke about the potential the refugee wave means for Portugal in terms of population numbers. Portugal needs these people to avert a collapse of a viable state a few decades from now. These immigrants will be happy to plant trees; they would not feel themselves to be above it.

The Government issued a sensible information about the coming migrants, to quieten the fears of the Population

The word of the day: “Privilege is invisible to those who have it” from a TED talk.

71 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 16.7.2015

July 19, 2015 at 12:22 pm | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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71 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 16.7.2015

 

Visit to the Marine Biology Station:

We visited the Marine Biology Station on Praia das Gaivotas, E’s place of work. The Ocean observatory is housed there, and Gr., although she is not officially back to work, also helps out there.

AL, one of the scientists, graciously showed us around. On appointment, she offers guided tours in English and Portuguese on a regular schedule. This would also be an interesting for tourists walks – nobody knows about it!

The station has an extensive library; the oceanographer Luiz Saldanha donated many unique books to the Station. The content is already available in digital format under www.cm-funchal.pt -> Ciencia ->Publicacoes. The Summer University students (Leicester) study here with E. One scientist is currently studying the impact plastic residue has on the marine animal world.

The station, dedicated to the study of the ocean and its species, is fifteen years old. It was supposed to be a part of a bigger complex; due to monetary restraints, the rest will not be built. The station has six floors and houses several, dedicated laboratories. The technical equipment (long lines of multiple tubes on the ceilings, big microscopes, lab bottles – empty as well as filled with something – is quite good. A rolling archive houses thousands of animal species in formaldehyde and alcohol.

The station works with in conjunction with UMa and the Municipal Aquarium in Rua da Mouraria. It is part of an international network of Marine Biology stations. Some preserved species from the Aquarium, are now housed in tanks in the Station, including the head of a once five-m long shark in formaldehyde. Some of the species stored may already be extinct by now.

The station has dedicated laboratories and teaching spaces; Gr was working in one of them. It also affords living space for visiting scientist. On the ground floor, above the beach, are two tanks which can accommodate turtles. One of the scientists is tracing them. Local fishermen also cooperate with the station; when they catch unusual species, they contact the scientists to collect them at the auction and take them to the station to be studied. The station is also a point of reference for scientists worldwide who want to compare species to ascertain of they found a new sub-species in our Waters.

Discussion:

We then started off by talking about the Redistribution of Wealth text.

The rich are not the problem; they can be a part of the solution. It’s a fact that the Portuguese have no culture of giving, they only think of themselves, their family and their friends. Since the times of Salazar, they are used to doing what they are told, they have no revolutionary traits – maybe something in that vein is starting now on the Algarve islets, due to the mass eviction of poor people (from illegal homes, endangered by rising water levels). They are also keen on subsidies which stop them from growing foodstuff for their own use and local sales. They also duly follow the seduction by advertising and throw away and replace instead of recycling, re-using and repairing products.

The Greeks import every lemon, now they will have to create an internal, local economy and start growing their own food. Where there is demand, supply will follow.

Wealth does not need to be measured by money, we can consider ourselves rich when we have a satisfying life.

Money is empowerment; it should not be kept under the mattress, it needs to circulate.

Ce would like to forbid the money flowing into sports in order to redirect the funds to social projects. Subsidies should be abolished.

  1. Education is the cornerstone to get the population to come away from the “Taker” model (Ishmael) and get them to fight for a more meaningful life.
  2. A good example is needed to create the right motivation. A good example is Sebastian Salgados “A Salt of the Earth” approach; Wim Wenders made the film (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_salt_of_the_earth/ ). Salgado photographed a lot of wars and bad events, and then decided to dedicate himself to do good by reforesting a vast area of land in Brazil. (http://www.institutoterra.org/eng/conteudosLinks.php?id=22&tl=QWJvdXQgdXM=&sb=NQ==#.VauBqfmP_KB )
  3. People need to start to question things and they need to stop using subsidies, they can use crowdfunding to start up a business (kickstarter, indiegogo, for Portugal www http://ppl.com.pt ). A site comparing crowdfunding sites: http://www.crowdfunding.com/ it is mportant to choose well because the platforms charge at least a 5% fee for the campaigns.
  4. Transparency: everything needs to and will be disclosed on the internet in the future. The “traditional” administrator who thinks that he can do what he wants, without benign controlled, will be a thing of the past.

Crowdfunding is a new form of financing, open to all, not just the rich. D invested a bit of money in an apparatus, invented but yet to be developed and marketed, which replaces the cumbersome Sleep Apnoe masks many persons need to use.

 

Then E read us a text of his, with the story of how he came to like and bake bread of the highest quality. With this meeting, we came to the following conclusion:

We decided that it would be a good project for the group to promote E’s dream of a bakery and bread shop (no Café) to produce and sell his bread, based on old strains of grains (Spelt, Emmer, Einkorn. Kamut). We would help him get the funding through a crowdfunding site, and Ri could take good photos and produce a video for the site. We have to choose the best platform http://www.crowdfunding.com/ to reach the maximum national and international support. As incentive for the backers, E can offer bread subscriptions.

E’s bread can also be exported, he already had requests in this regard.

This would set a good example for the population of self-help to produce a local, Madeira-made product, with grains from Madeira Island, milled on site. A healthy, not genetically modified and not poisoned bread.

This group goal will also be in line with Ri’s idea that the group should focus and work on a meaningful concept

Our next meeting will be on WEDNESDAY 19.8.2015

Visit to the Municipal Fire Station in Funchal

December 19, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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The group went to visit the local Municipal Fire Station in Funchal to the North of Dolce Vita.

This was a very interesting visit. Chief Samuel, one of the shift leaders with many years of experience, showed us the station and the cars and gave us honest answers to a lot of prickly questions.

The highlights:

The team has 137 staff (it should have 140)

26 persons are always on call on 12 hour shifts.

The response time is very quick, especially if you do not call 112 (officially what you have to do) but directly to them (291 200930).

The city is divided into two parts:

West: Municipal Bombeiros,

East: Voluntary Bombeiros, but if there is a fire in the Zone Velha or around the Cathedral, both units always respond.

The staff have a gym, a canteen (most bring their own food) , a multi-purpose room with internet and sleeping quarters.

A regular fireman/woman earns around 600-700€ month, a Chief around 1100€ (they say, brut, less taxes…)

Nothing much may happen in a shift but they have to be alert. Tension is palpable in the building and the courtyard.

The equipment:

There is never enough money around to have the best equipment and maintenance but this is a complaint every Fire Station in the world voices. The FNC Volunteers have worse equipment, though.

A lot of equipment is bought from Germany. The base of the cars may be coming from Mercedes but the top is built by a Portuguese company, Jacinto. They are very good at custom building fire equipment and sell their fire engines all over Europe. (Land Rovers are not the favourite Fireman car, they are being replaced over time.)

There are smaller cars to check out a situation – the Fire Chief has always to be there first.

They have one car to free people trapped in cars – this is the worst job they have to do

Ladder cars:

We have the biggest ladder in Portugal (55m) this is the second biggest ladder in Europe. Think of hotels like Pestana Carlton…

There are regular Fire Trainings in the hotels for the firemen by the Fire Departments. These trainings serve also to check the pipes and hydrants. All hotels have to have an internal “first response” Fire Team.

Water tanks:

All cars have water tanks of various sizes, the biggest contains 32000 l water (all hydrant water is fresh water)

They also come with foam which is very effective but expensive. The Station has a tank of 1000 l foam.

The pipes are surprisingly slim; water pumps can be taken out by hand to be placed where they can be connected to external water supplies.

The Station also has a training tower to train for high-rise fires. The staff has lot of training sessions to keep them in shape and respond to new situations or regulation.

Ambulances:

They have ambulances just for emergencies; the Volunteers and other services (Red Cross) take care of non-urgent transports. In the time we were there, the ambulances moved out twice. – no fire alarms.

 

E., with his dire experience in Monte last year, spoke about the shortcomings during the situation (hydrants blocked, lagoon water not used, no help from the fire department) Chief Samuel acknowledged this.

Chief Samuel confirmed that there was an order to save the Monte Church – nowadays; such an order could not be imposed on the Firemen anymore.

On February 20, 2010, contrary to the rumours, only 42 persons died, and nobody drowned in the underground parking garages.

The Fire Department has its own water gauge in the mountains so that they know when a flood can be expected downtown.

In Dolce Vita, the order was to evacuate the parking, and people tried to take out their cars but the “guards” wouldn’t open the gates without payment so more cars were rendered unusable

We gave Chief Samuel our Fire Manual.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

65 Madeira Consorcio Meeting 16.10.2014

October 17, 2014 at 5:19 pm | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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A few of us had a very nice meeting last night. The weather was not favourable and we couldn`t visit V`s garden, so we went right into the discussion of just everything, including political parties and the current state of Portugal.

D said that there is a new party being created by Antonio Marinho Pinto, a man he says seems to be respectable and honest (ex-“Partido da Terra” member, ex boss of the Ordem dos Advogados). Here is a link to some info about the new party PDR: http://portocanal.sapo.pt/noticia/38771/

We also spoke about the TED talk about remittances which shows that foreign aid could be cut down if we allowed refugees to work in the country of choice. They are sending as much money as possible home to their families and support their community much more effectively. Here is the link:

http://www.ted.com/talks/dilip_ratha_the_hidden_force_in_global_economics_sending_money_home

Glenn Greenwald, the journalist who worked with Edward Snowdon, makes the case for privacy for individuals – to be protected – and openness of Government documents – to avoid shady dealings.:

http://www.ted.com/talks/glenn_greenwald_why_privacy_matters

Remember the “Marriage in Madeira” discussion – EU foreigners can easily marry in Madeira and this would be a good product for the island`s tour operators? A bridegroom found the Piece U wrote and will now arrange his nuptials with the German consulate in Funchal, a small success!

 

62 reunião Madeira Consorcio ToBinG 17.7.2014

July 20, 2014 at 9:36 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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62 Reuniao Madeira Consorcio ToBinG 17.7.2014

Tivemos como sempre, tivemos uma conversa interessante!
D está muito decepcionado com a reação que recebemos dos madeirenses às nossas iniciativas. Ele não ouviu falar do Continente, e U não tem sucesso com o Pingo Doce, para ser autorizado a distribuir os nossos manuais de incêndio nos supermercados. D também está decepcionado com os produtores de cesta de praia; precisavam demasiado tempo para produzir a amostra em tamanho natural, e isso não é feito para as especificações que queríamos.


A Madeira Consorcio agora tem poucos membros e, como podemos ver, desde que começamos nosso trabalho, muitos de nós estão decepcionados como D, e muitos acham que é um desperdício da nossa energia para tentar ajudar os madeirenses. Nós também temos dificuldades para encontrar novos membros pró-ativas com o entusiasmo necessário.


O que vai mudar agora:
A Madeira Consorcia estará mudando de direção. U e V vão continuar com o projeto das ervas e U vai tentar terminar o projeto de cesta de praia. Então teremos uma ou duas reuniões por mês, em vários lugares, inclusive em nossas casas, para falar sobre as questões que nos interessam.


O que não irá alterar:
Muitos de nós tornaram-se amigos; vamos ficar em contato, e falar e falar até nossos ouvidos cair, porque ainda temos bons cérebros para discutir questões difíceis!

Notícias:
cesta: U vai tentar convencer P para colocá-lo na área de recepção  para que P encomenda cestas de praia para os seus hotéis de praia. Mas, então, eles vão provavelmente comprar as da China, como aos produtores aqui são muito caros e não são muito interessados ​​na idéia.
U falou sobre a resposta que recebeu do Provedor de Justiça (Ombudsman), em relação ao seu pedido de atualização do simulador de Pensões da Segurança Social (funciona apenas para um ano de previsão agora).
O Provedor não é de opinião que o simulador deve dar às pessoas a oportunidade de calcular a sua pensão para os anos vindouros. Ele diz que não se deve incutir nas pessoas um sentimento de esperança irrealista … para uma boa pensão, isso é. O grupo disse que o Estado não quer que os cidadãos perceberem o valor reduzido das suas pensão no final. Por outro lado, se os cidadãos sabem do problema agora. poderiam tomar já agora precauções e (se possível) começar um fundo de previdência privada.

A pergunta: qual o instrumento mais eficaz para defender os cidadãos em tais situações? Deco parece boa, mas a experiência mostrou que não é muito eficaz, também. O Livro de Reclamações é ainda a melhor ferramenta para obter serviços (mas não instituições) para melhorar os seus serviços. Precisamos de uma ferramenta contra as instituições.


Falamos sobre o interesse de outras nações para copiar o modelo “alemão” de aprendizagem, que combina formação teórica e prática. Isso depende muito de uma boa colaboração entre as escolas e pequena e média indústria de tamanho e não pode ser facilmente aplicado em outros países. Uma exceção é a Putney School, perto de Boston: dê uma olhada no seu site e, especificamente, em suas grandes crenças fundamentais: http://www.putneyschool.org/content/fundamental-beliefs

A boa notícia:
E teve outra temporada de sucesso de seu curso Oceanográfico com a Universidade de Leicester; seu coordenador quer enviar mais alunos no próximo ano. E também vai tentar criar um outro curso para a permacultura orgânica. Portanto, há uma Universidade de Verão em desenvolvimento, mas, neste momento, apenas para os alunos, e não para os turistas.

Outras informações:
Ro está na Bulgária, no momento, participando de uma conferência de permacultura: http://www.eupc.eu/


A cura quântica: ter um olhar para http://www.quantumk.co.uk/


A Câmara Municipal do Funchal está agora aberto ao público: durante a semana, os visitantes podem, para o custo de 3,50 € /adulto, visitar o Assembleia , o “Salão Nobre”, utilizado para comemorações – este é o lugar onde você iria receber um prêmio da cidade se você fosse para obter um – e outras salas. As visitas guiadas começam às 10h, 11h, 02:00, 15:00 e 04:00. Uma vez que as obras terminaram na torre do edifício, esta será incluída também. U irá organizar uma visita lá para o grupo em agosto.

Nossa próxima reunião ToBinG é no dia 21 de agosto. No futuro, este será um grupo de discussão, para o benefício dos membros participantes. Ainda assim, grandes idéias virá-lo!

 

62 reunião Madeira Consorcio ToBinG 17.7.2014

As always, we had an interesting conversation!

D is very disappointed with the reaction we received from the Madeirans to our initiatives. He has not heard from Continente, and U has no success with Pingo Doce, to be allowed to distribute our Fire Manuals in the supermarkets. He is also disappointed with the beach basket producers; it took way to long to produce the life size sample, and it is not made to the specifications we wanted.

The Madeira Consorcio now has few members and as we can see, since we started our work, many of us are disappointed as D, and many feel that it is a waste of our energy to try to help the Madeirans. We also have difficulties to find new pro-active members with the necessary enthusiasm.

What will change now:

The Madeira Consorcia will be changing direction. U and V will continue with the herbs project and U will try to finish the Beach Basket project. Then we shall have one or two meetings a month in various places, also in our homes, to talk about issues that interest us.

What will not change:

Many of us have become friends; we are going to stay in touch, and talk and talk until our ears fall off, because we still have good brains to discuss difficult issues!

News:

Basket: U will try to get P to place it in the Reception area  so that P gets beach baskets for their hotels. But they will then probably buy from China, as our people are too expensive and not very interested in the idea.

U spoke about the response she received from the Provedor de Justica (our kind of Ombudsman) in regards to her request for a update of the Social Security Pension simulator (it works only for one year ahead).

The Provedor is not of the opinion that the simulator should give people the chance to calculate their pension for years ahead. He says one should not instill in people a sense of unrealistic hope … for a good pension, that is. The group said that the State does not want the citizens to know how small their pension will be in the end. On the other hand, if the citizens know of the problem they could take precautions already now and (if possible) start a private pension fund. The question: which instrument is most effective to defend the citizens in such situations? Deco looks good but experience showed that is not very effective, either. The livro de reclamações is still the best tool to get services (but not institutions) to improve on their services. We need a tool against institutions.

We spoke about the interest of other nations to copy the “German” model of apprenticeship, which combines theoretical and practical training. This depends very much on good collaboration between schools and small & medium sized industry and cannot be easily applied in other countries. An exception is the Putney School near Boston: have a look at their website and specifically, at their great fundamental beliefs: http://www.putneyschool.org/content/fundamental-beliefs

The good News:
E had another successful run of his Oceanographic course with Leicester University; their co-ordinator wants to send more students next year. E will also try to set up another course for organic permaculture.

 

Other info:

Ro is in Bulgaria at the moment, taking part in a permaculture conference:http://www.eupc.eu/

Quantum healing: have a look at http://www.quantumk.co.uk/

The Funchal City Hall is now open to the public: during the workweek, visitors can for the cost of 3.50€/adult, visit the Assembly Hall, the “Noble Hall”, used for commemorations – this is where you would receive an award form the city if you ever were to get one – and other rooms. The guided visits start at 10am, 11am, 2pm, 3pm and 4pm. Once the works are finished on the tower of the building, this will be included as well. U will organize a visit there for the group in August. Let`s go!

Our next ToBinG meeting is on August 21. In the future, this will be a discussion group, for the benefit of the participating members. Still, great ideas will come of it!!

 

59 Madeira Consorcio ToBinG Meeting 15.5.2014 EXCERPT

May 16, 2014 at 4:25 pm | Posted in Posts | 1 Comment
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59 Reunião Madeira Consorcio ToBinG 15.5.2014  English Version below

Olá equipe, Tivemos uma discussão interessante, mas aqui é a notícia em primeiro lugar:

Cesto : Sr. Matransferiu a amostra ao Sr. Goque irá ajustá-lo com têxtil (da Madeira) na parte traseira e para as almofadas. Infelizmente, três “peritos” da Camacha são incapazes de produzir um top decente, e a peça final é decepcionante. D e Uiráo decidir se váo apresentá-lo ao P ou não. Provavelmente, ele será informado de que os madeirenses não são capazes de produzir o que nós estamos procurando e aconselhá-lo a comprar o produto em outro lugar. Em seguida, a amostra vai para Dpara a sua fazenda ou ao seu amigo com um restaurante no Lugar de Baixo para a promenada dele.

DV: Ufoi entregue para outro contato, desta vez na Ilha da Madeira, para encontrar um investidor para o projeto. Esse contato vai conversar com alguns hoteleiros que devem estar interessados ​​nele , pois é uma grande atração para os turistas. Mantenha seus dedos cruzados!

Go participa de um curso de fabricação de cerveja na Quinta Pedagógica em 7 de junho. Ainda há vagas para mais pessoas para participar do curso,

U tentou executar o oficial calculadora pensões da segurança social de novo, como no ano passado. Agora, ele só dá simulações até Maio 2015 – este não é suficiente. Ela escreveu para o Estado Provedor de Justiça, Vamos ver quando e que eles respondem !

 

Discutimos a idéia da U`s para o layout de ” Portuland “, um estado que era mais libertário do que Portugal, mas ainda com uma rede de segurança social. Este estado teria um FairTax (ver http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairtax ), este é um imposto fixo, eliminando todos os outros impostos e pagamentos para a Segurança Social. Hong Kong implementou este com a uma taxa de 16% agora, e a cidade é um lugar próspero. Nós discutimos se isso seria justo, ou se um imposto progressivo poderia reduzir melhor o fosso cada vez maior entre os pobres e os ricos.

Outros comentários da discussão:

Ddisse que seria muito melhor para obrigar as pessoas pobres para trabalhar por conta própria e pagar impostos baixos sobre ele, do que tê-los procurar emprego não-existentes e pagar um total de 23,75% + 11% da Segurança Social para o Estado.

A corrupção é um elemento na sociedade humana, que precisa ser combatida. Ele pode ser batido com transparência e tratamento anônimo de solicitações cidadãos. Algumas dessas já está acontecer em Portugal: Testamentos e escrituras são registradas on-line por notários que não têm contato com a pessoa solicitante.

Falávamos sobre Medicina Quântica (pobre O, seus pais são ambos médicos, e ela está farta de ouvir falar de medicina !) e o impacto que isso poderia ter, um tratamento de baixo custo e eficaz, sobre os custos de saúde em espiral em todos os estados . Tratamentos alternativos ainda estão sendo suprimidos pelo lobby farmacêutico.

Linus Pauling ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling ) propagagou o uso de doses maciças de vitamina A para tratar uma grande variedade de doenças de uma maneira de baixo custo, mas esta iniciativa foi sabotado pela indústria de medicamentos, também um esforço de Bill Clinton de ter terapias alternativas pagas pelo sistema de saúde.

Também falávamos sobre o tratamento bio-magnética para eliminar ambientes ácidos e alcalinos criados por bactérias e vírus em nosso corpo. Os ímãs podem re-alinhar o nível de ph, e um nível de ph de cerca de 7 por todo o corpo mata as bactérias. Adeus, antibióticos!

Os cidadãos devem estar cientes de que eles são responsáveis ​​por sua saúde, e não deixar isso para outras pessoas para consertá-lo .

Por favor, leia o resumo e deixe-me saber o que você pensa! A discussão está acontecendo em Contraditório, em Lisboa, e o texto será publicado em seu site em breve.

Nossa próxima reunião agricultura é no dia 5 de Junho,

Nossa próxima reunião ToBinG será 29 de Maio .

 

 

 

 

59 Madeira Consorcio ToBinG Meeting 15.5.2014

 

Hello Team,

We had an exciting discussion, but here is the news first:

Basket: Sr. Ma transferred the prototype to Sr. Go who will fit it out in Madeira textile in the back and the for the cushions.

Unfortunately, three “experts” from Camacha are unable to produce a decent top, and the finished piece is disappointing. D and U will decide whether to present it to the P. or not. Probably he will be informed that the Madeirans are not capable of producing what we are looking for and advise him to buy the product elsewhere. Then the sample will go to Dto his farm or to his acquaintance with a restaurant in Lugar de Baixo for the promenade.

DV: U has been handed to another contact, this time on Madeira Island, to find an investor for the project. This contact with talk to some hoteliers who should be interested in it as it is a great attraction for tourists. Keep your fingers crossed!

 

Gois taking part in a beer-brewing course in Quinta Pedagogica on June 7,. There are still vacancies for more people to join the course.

 

Utried to run the official Social Security Pension calculator again, like last year. Now, it only gives out simulations until May 2015 – this is obviously not good enough. She wrote to the State Provedor de Justicia, let`s see when and what they answer!

 

We discussed U`s idea for the layout of ”Portuland”, a state which his more libertarian than Portugal, but still with a Social Security net. This state would have a FairTax (see.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairtax), this is a flat tax, eliminating all other taxes and payments to Social Security. Hong Kong implemented this at a rate of now 16%, and Hong Kong is a prosperous place. We discussed if this would be fair, or if a progressive tax could narrow the widening gap between the poor and the rich.

Other comments from the discussion:

Dsaid that it would be much better to compel poor people to become self-employed and pay low taxes on it, than have them look for non-existing jobs and pay a total of 23.75% + 11% of Social Security to the state.

Corruption is an element in human society which needs to be fought hard. It can be beaten with transparency and anonymous treatment of citizens requests. Some of this is already happening in Portugal: Wills and escrituras are registered online by notaries who have no contact to the requesting person. .

We got to speak about Quantum Medicine (poor O, her parents are both doctors, she is fed up of hearing about medicine!) and the impact it could have, as a low cost and effective treatment, on the spiraling health costs in every state. Alternative treatments are still being suppressed by the pharmaceutical lobby.

Linus Pauling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling) propagated the use of massive doses of Vitamin A to treat a large range of diseases in a low-cost manner but this initiative was sabotaged by the medicine industry, also an effort by Bill Clinton to have alternative therapies paid for by the health system.

We also spoke about bio-magnetic treatment to eliminate acidic and alkaline environments bacteria and viruses create in our body. Magnets can re-align the ph level and a ph level of about 7 throughout the body kills them. Good-bye, antibiotics!

Citizens should be aware that they are responsible for their health, and not leave it up to other persons to fix it.

Please read the overview ! The discussion is going on in Contraditório in Lisbon, and the text will be published on their website soon.

 

Our next Agriculture meeting is on June 5

Our next ToBinG meeting will be May 29 

 

 

 

 

April 6, 2014 at 9:50 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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56 reuniãoMadeira Consórcio (Agricultura) 3.4.2014

Olá equipe, nos encontramos na Pizzaria no Lugar de Baixo novamente, e, como recompensa, tivemos uma boa fatia depois.

Plantio de teste: a terra de V em Chão de Ribeiro está preparada para 2 x 200m2 plantio, metade para Menta e metade para Melissa (ela não obteve as plantas do D que está a multiplicar Menta também). A tubulação é instalada, agora precisa de um clima mais quente para plantar nos campos de teste; ela espera que até meados de maio. As amostras de solo foram testados, eles acabaram por ser muito bom, e a terra não tenha sido utilizada por mais de cinco anos.

Se você estiver olhando para as árvores de fruto: V terá abacate alta qualidade, manga e outras árvores de fruto à venda em meados de maio.

Manual contra Fogo: D está em contato com Continente, U com Pingo Doce. Ambas as cadeias não deveriam se opor a distribuição se fizermos isso nós mesmos num fim de semana em determinados supermercados. Precisamos imprimir, U irá organizar isso.

Amostras Menta para o teste em MBT depois da Páscoa: R vai pegar as amostras na QP e entregá-los a E, uma amiga de U de que vive em Rib. Brava. E trabalha na Zona Franca e pode levar as amostras para MBT. U vai pagar para o teste.

D & P daráo U os detalhes de contacto da Agência Agricultores em Mértola, para que U pode entregar isso para a Câmara Municipal de S. Vicente; eles querem organizar uma agência semelhante, e eles poderiam ajudar a encontrar agricultores que vão plantar Menta e Melissa para a exportação para a Alemanha.

Produção de cana de açúcar: R recebeu o mesmo dinheiro para a mesma quantidade que no ano passado, mas o volume da colheita e os subsídios têm aumentado. Ribeiro Seco está trabalhando – Sr. Luis não veio para a última reunião. Ele disse em entrevista a um jornal que ele vai produzir muito mel de novo, e que a sua exportação é muito pequena (5% da produção). 

E tentou moer poços de abacate, mas não conseguiu, o moinho quebrou . Ele vai falar com MCBT. O pó é usado em medicamentos alternativos.

O novo ministro da Agricultura de Portugal surgiu num entrevista a idéia de promover o plantio de eucalipto para a madeira porque as árvores crescem tão rapidamente …. ups.

Outras notícias:

Petição contra a redução dos subsídios de voo ( http://www.peticaopublica.com/pview.aspx?pi=PT72870) está agora em 3.508 assinaturas (4000 são necessários); se você pode ajudar assinando e enviando a informação para seus amigos, por favor faça-o ! Isto não é sobre a questão em si , mas sobre o fato de que este instrumento pode ser usado para forçar o governo a fazer algo sobre questões de interesse público. A Petição de ” Manifesto 74″ para renegociar a dívida é a 34.081 assinaturas, então isso tem de ser discutido no Parlamento de Lisboa; por enquanto, o parlamento vai discutir o assunto na próxima semana, de qualquer maneira.

Os rapazes se reuniráo na próxima semana com Colin para organizar uma reunião para ele na Universidade.

Precisamos de novos membros, se você souber de uma pessoa pró-ativa com idéias e disciplina para vir às reuniões regularmente, por favor informa a U!  

A nossa organização : Nosso Blog está em https://madeiraconsorcio.com/ Facebook é a http://www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/

A próxima reunião de Agricultura será em 8 de maio

O grupo ToBinG se reunirá no dia 17 de abril,

 

 

56 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (Agriculture) 3.4.2014

Hello Team,

we met in the Pizzaria in Lugar de Baixo again, and had a nice slice afterwards as reward.

Test planting: V’s land in Chao de Ribeiro is prepared for 2 x 200m2 plantation, half for Menta and half for Melissa (she didn’t get the plants from D who is multiplying Menta as well). The piping is installed, now she needs warmer weather to plant the test fields, hopefully until mid-May. The soil samples were tested, they turned out to be very good, and the land has not been farmed for more than five years.

If you are looking for fruit trees: V will have high quality avocado, mango and other fruit trees for sale in mid-May.

Fire Manual distribution: D is in touch with Continente, U with Pingo Doce. Both chains should not be opposed to distribution if we do it ourselves on a weekend in certain supermarkets. We need to print, U will get this organized.

Menta Samples for the test in MBT after Easter: Ro will pick up the samples in QP and hand them to E, a friend of U who lives in Rib. Brava. E works in the Free Trade Zone and can take the samples to MBT. U will pay for the test.

D&P will give U the contact details they can find of the Farmers Agency in Mértola, so that U can hand this on to the City Hall in S. Vicente; they want to organize a similar agency, and they could help to find farmers who will plant Menta and Melissa for the export to Germany.

Sugar cane production: Regina received the same amount of money for the same quantity as last year but the harvest volume and the subsidies have increased. Ribeiro Seco is working – Sr. Luis didn’t come to the last meeting. He said in a newspaper interview that he will produce too much honey again, and that his export is very small (5% of production). No mention that he could produce sugar.

E tried to grind avocado pits but failed, the grinder broke down. He will talk MBT. The powder is used in alternative medicines.

The Agriculture minister of Portugal, new to her job, came up with the idea to promote eucalyptus plantations for the wood because the trees grow so quickly….ups.

Other news:

The Petition against the reduction of flight subsidies (http://www.peticaopublica.com/pview.aspx?pi=PT72870) is now at 3508 signatures (4000 are needed). if you can help by signing and sending the info on to your friends, please do so!

This is not about the issue itself but about the fact that this can be used to force the government to do something about public interest issues. The Petition from “Manifesto 74” to renegotiate the Debt is at 34.081 signatures, so this has to be discussed in the Lisbon Parliament; in fact, the parliament will discuss it next week, anyway.

The boys will meet next week on short notice with Colin to organize a meeting for him in the University.

We need new members, if you know of a proactive person with ideas and the stamina to come to the meetings regularly, please let U know!

 

Our organisation:

Our Blog is at https://madeiraconsorcio.com/ Facebook is at www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/

The next Agriculture meeting will be on May 8 

The ToBinG group will meet on April 17 

 

 

55 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (ToBinG) 13.3.2014 EXCERPT

March 16, 2014 at 11:09 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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55 reunião Madeira Consorcio (ToBinG) 13.3.2014 – English version below

Tivemos uma discussão interessante sobre como conter o Governo, o que foi inspirado por uma discussão igualmente sedutora acontecendo em Contraditório (http://www.contraditorio.pt/) em Lisboa.

Primeiro alguns outros detalhes :
O
sistema solar de D & MS  está agora a trabalhar muito bem. Eles tiveram que obter algumas baterias novas e mais poderosas. Ainda não tentaram ir sem o fornecimento EDP. Eles descobriram que é ilegal em Portugal a vender eletricidade excedente (executando o metro para trás) à EDP e ao mesmo tempo a produção de electricidade para consumo doméstico, por isso só estão produzindo para si mesmos.


OCesto: o topo está quase completo, depois tem que ir para o estofador a ser equipado com o tecido. D tem um contato na Ponta do Sol que está ansiosa para ver o protótipo, mas também temos P. como potencial comprador.


U escreveu um plano de negócios en Inglês (com um software EUA www.enloop.com) para o projeto de
DV e enviou-o para vários intermediários de investidores. O software, sendo da América, é um pouco engraçado: uma Lda obtem uma classificação pior, quando o projeto é baseado em um único proprietário, o “rating” fica melhor. Não tem entrada para efeitos de IVA , mas oferece um PDF profissional, tudo de graça. Extras, como deixar de fora o logotipo de Enloop , precisa ser pago. Recomendável!


U está em contato com o Pingo Doce para ver se eles nos permitiriam distribuir panfletos com o
Manual de Fogo nos supermercados, devemos ouvir algo na próxima semana. D está em contato com o Continente, mas a pessoa responsável não estava disponível até o momento.


A discussão:
M de Contraditiorio sugeriu que os impostos devem ser dedicados a fins específicos, de duas maneiras:
1. Imposto sobre gasolina → manutenção de estradas etc; impostos de tabaco e álcool – > serviços de saúde, etc; os impostos de luxo → ….
2.IRS: o cidadão pode determinar percentagens dos seus impostos para ir para todos os departamentos, por exemplo: 10% para a defesa, 30% para a educação, etc …. até 100% é atingido. Assim mostra de forma muito evidente a importância que cidadãos coloquem sobre os serviços que consomem, e capacitá-los para governar seu estado. Os serviços públicos que, portanto, recebem pequenas quantidades de receitas fiscais têm de apertar o cinto. Se este, em seguida, resulta numa falta de serviços, os cidadãos irão aumentar a sua distribuição. Como na Califórnia com seus referendos, os cidadãos terão uma curva de aprendizado a respeito de porque os impostos precisam ser levantadas, não baixados.
3.Para tornar a gestão mais fácil, isso poderia ser decidido por referendo com um ano de antecedência. Em seguida, os escritórios de administração saberiam antecipadamente quanto dinheiro eles irão receber.


E disse que o Brasil teve um pequeno imposto sobre todas as transações de dinheiro por um tempo; esta pequena quantidade foi suficiente para cobrir o défice e restaurar o pote de pensão da Segurança Social. Em seguida, o Estado tentou usá-lo para outros meios, mas foi parado pelos cidadãos.


Também falavamos sobre um controle do sector bancário, proibindo qualquer comércio (“Os mercados ” são baseados em
comércio) com os bens que não têm contra-valor tangível (bens e hipotecas são bons, Credit Default Swaps, etc não são). Mas Títulos – IOUs ( “Eu devo a você” ) não são tangíveis e podem ser necessários no mercado , pois eles podem ser limitados por uma regra para não vendê-los após a primeira venda.

Outros comentários – não podemos estar sempre otimista :
GM tinha de fato sido nacionalizado devido à crise bancária, bem como alguns bancos. Os EUA e a Europa estão resgatando os bancos e alguns especialistas do banco dizem que na verdade esta crise ainda temos hoje não foi devido ao excesso de gastos – o que aconteceu também – mas a crise atual realmente ainda é devido ao resgate do sistema bancário.
Países como a Grécia e Portugal estão agora em escravidão por dívida. Isso era previsível e talvez até mesmo feito deliberadamente pelos países mais ricos da UE quando começaram o euro.
O dólar ainda governa o mundo. Nos EUA, os cidadãos estão na escravidão do cartão de crédito, isso funciona em todos os paises.
Há demasiado políticos que trabalham para os bancos.
O sistema de Segurança Social já não funciona, porque as crianças costumavam para pagar os próprios pais, agora estáo pagando por muitas pessoas, e os dados demográficos não são em nosso favor.
D disse que, se os EUA não tinham eliminado o imposto sucessório sobre pessoas ricas em 2000, os EUA poderiam ter eliminado o IVA e Imposto de Renda em 2020 ou 2025. O mesmo iria para Portugal.
A UE deve instalar uma Agência de Rating de Crédito Europeia para compensar os danos das três agências norte-americanas estão fazendo para a Europa, olhe para esta palestra do TED: http://www.ted.com/talks/annette_heuser_the_3_agencies_with_the_power_to_make_or_break_economies

Por último, mas não menos importante:
E disse que o dinheiro deve ser visto como um produto de trabalho, mesmo amor, e não só como um meio de pagamento.
Vivemos em um mundo frágil , somos nem sempre conscientes disso, porque é assustador.

A nossa organização :
Nosso Blog está em https://madeiraconsorcio.com/
Facebook é a http://www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/

A próxima reunião Agricultura será no dia 3 de abril
O grupo ToBinG se reunirá no dia 26 de março

 

 55 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (ToBinG) 13.3.2014

We had an exciting discussion about how to curb the Government; this was inspired by an equally enticing discussion going on in Contraditório in Lisbon (http://www.contraditorio.pt/)

First some other details:
D & MSs solar system is now working very well. They had to get some new and more powerful batteries. They have not tried going without the EDP supply yet. They found that it is illegal in Portugal to sell surplus electricity (by running the meter backwards) to the EDP while also producing electricity for home consumption so there are only producing for themselves.

The Basket: the top is nearing completion, then it has to go to the upholsterer to be fitted with the fabric. D has a contact in Ponta do Sol who is keen to see the prototype, but we still have P. as potential buyer as well.

U wrote an English business plan (with an US software www.enloop.com) for the DV project and sent it on to several investor intermediaries. The software, being from America, is a bit funny: Lda’s get a worse rating as if the project is based on a sole proprietor – and it has no entry for VAT but it delivers a professionally made PDF, all for free. Extras, such as leaving out the Enloop logo, need to be paid for. To be recommended!

U is in touch with Pingo Doce supermarket to see if they would allow us to distribute pamphlets with the Fire Manual in the supermarkets, we should hear something next week. D is in touch with Continente but the responsible person was not available so far.

THE Discussion:

M from Contraditiorio suggested that taxes should be dedicated to specific purposes, in two ways:

  1. Fuels tax → road maintenance etc, tobacco and alcohol taxes -> Health services etc, Luxury taxes → ….

  2. Income tax: the citizen can determine the %age of 100% of his taxes to go to all departments, e.g. 10% for defense; 30% for education,…. etc until 100% is covered. This would show in a very obvious way the importance the citizens place on the services they consume, and empower them to rule their state: Public services which therefore receive small amounts of tax revenues have to tighten their belts. IF this then causes a lack of services, citizens will increase their distribution. As in California with its referendums, citizens will have a learning curve as to why taxes need to be raised, not lowered.

  3. To make the management easier, this could be decided by referendum for one year in advance. Then the admin offices would know on advance how much money they can work with.

E said that Brazil had a very small tax on all money transactions for a time, this tiny amount was enough to cover the deficit and restore the Social Security pension pot. Then the state tried to use it for other means but was stopped by the citizens.

We also spoke about reigning in the banking sector by forbidding any trade (“the Markets” are based on trade) with goods that have no tangible counter-value (goods and mortgages are fine, Credit Default Swaps etc. are not). But Titles – IOUs (“I owe you”) are not tangible and might be needed in the market; they could be limited by a rule to not sell them on after the first sale.

Other comments – we cannot always be optimistic:

GM had in fact been nationalized due to the banking crisis, as well as some banks. The US and Europe are rescuing the banks and some bank experts say that indeed this crisis we still have today was not due to overspending – which happened as well – but the current crisis is still due to the rescue of the banking system.

Countries like Greece and Portugal are now in debt slavery. This was foreseeable and maybe even done deliberately by the richer EU countries when they started the euro.

The dollar still rules the world. In the USA, the citizens are in credit card slavery, it works everywhere.

There are way too many politicians who work for banks.

The Social Security system is not working anymore because children used to pay for their parents, now there are paying for too many people, and demographics are not in our favor.

D said that if the US had not eliminated the inheritance tax on wealthy people in 2000, the US could have eliminated VAT and Income Tax by 2020 or 2025. The same would go for Portugal.

The EU is supposed to install a European Credit Rating Agency to offset the damages the three American agencies are doing to Europe, have a look at this TED talk: (http://www.ted.com/talks/annette_heuser_the_3_agencies_with_the_power_to_make_or_break_economies)

Last but not least:

E said that money should be seen as a product of labour, not only as a means to pay something.

We live in a fragile world, we are just not always aware of it because it is frightening.

Our organisation:

Our Blog is at https://madeiraconsorcio.com/

Facebook is at www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/

The next Agriculture meeting will be on April 3.

The ToBinG group will meet on March 26.

 

50 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (Agriculture) 16.1.2013 EXCERPT

January 19, 2014 at 11:53 am | Posted in Posts | Leave a comment
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50 reunião Madeira Consórcio (Agricultura) 16.1.2013

Falamos sobre a oferta de MB para 1-3 ha de hortelã e camomila , J irá nos informar até o final de janeiro se quer aceitá-la, talvez em cooperação com o padre.
J e M têm cerca de 1 ha de terras disponíveis, vamos precisar de mais terra para aceitar a oferta e fazer este funcionar. V já fiz alguma pesquisa sobre as plantas e as condições de que necessitam. R diz que pode estender o uso do solo aplicando micro-organismos.

MB é um dos maiores grossistas internacionais na Europa, se podemos oferecer uma boa qualidade para eles , poderíamos vendê-los muitos outros produtos mais tarde!


Nós também falamos sobre o kefir de água que o E tem disponível para todos os interessados. É muito saudável, melhor do que o kefir de leite – ver parte de seu texto incluído :
O consumo regular de alívio Água Kefir maio, e / ou até mesmo promover plenamente a remissão de diferentes condições de saúde : asma, acne, problemas renais, acidez estomacal , problemas circulatórios , colesterol, reumatismo , osteoporose, hepatite, tuberculose , bronquite, catarro , produção excessiva de bile , alergias , enxaquecas, condições de cólon , problemas digestivos , úlceras, colites , bactérias hostis, prisão de ventre , diarréia, candidíase , inflamações intestinais , ansiedade, depressão , diferentes tipos de eczema , bem como profilaxia contra alguns tipos de câncer . O consumo de Kefir Diretamente e indiretamente atua sobre a saúde dos órgãos , tais como : coração, pâncreas , rins, próstata , fígado , músculos, cabelo e pele, e, em geral sobre o sistema nervoso .
O consumo regular de kefir de água Art- Sanna pode progredir em doses que variam de um copo por dia , até 3 litros de bebida fermentada . Também foi atribuída ao grande benefícios da regulação da pressão arterial , bem como o sistema imunológico, multidão numerosa resistência Melhorar contra doenças. Também foi relatado algum sucesso na regulação dos índices glicêmicos e, portanto, ajudar no tratamento de diabetes. Sendo um poderoso anti-oxidante , é beneficamente Funciona com o processo de anti -envelhecimento.


R tem peças de cerâmica que podem ajudar a filtrar a água limpa para este kefir, E vai testar este método.

Outras notícias:
A publicação de nosso manual contra Fogo terá lugar no final de janeiro / início de fevereiro.
Haverá um novo evento IGNITE em Junho / Julho , no Funchal , podemos apresentar novas ideias.


A nossa organização :
Nosso Blog está em https://madeiraconsorcio.com/
Facebook é a http://www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/

O grupo de Agricultura vai se reunir em 06 de fevereiro 

O grupo ToBinG se reunirá em Jan 23 

 

50 Madeira Consorcio Meeting Minutes (Agriculture) 16.1.2013

We spoke about the offer by MB for 1-3 ha of Menta and Melissa; J will let us know until the end of January if he wants to take it up, maybe in co-operation with  the Padre The client would provide the plants and set the standard to be met.

J and M have around 1 ha of land available, we shall need more land to take up the offer and make this work. V already did some research on the plants and the conditions they need. R says he can extend the land use by applying micro-organisms.

MB is one of the biggest International wholesalers in Europe; if we can deliver great quality to them, we could sell them many other products later!

We also spoke about the water kefir E has available for all who are interested. It is very healthy, better than milk kefir – see part of his text included:

Regular consumption of Water Kefir may relief, and/or even fully promote the remission of various health conditions: asthma, acne, kidney problems, stomach acidity, circulatory problems, cholesterol, rheumatism, osteoporosis, hepatitis, tuberculosis, bronchitis, catarrh, excessive production of bile, allergies, migraines, colon conditions, digestive problems, ulcers, colitis, hostile bacteria, constipation, diarrhoea, candidiasis, intestinal inflammations, anxiety, depression, different types of eczema, as well as prophylaxis against some types of cancer. The consumption of Kefir acts directly and indirectly on the health of organs such as heart, pancreas, kidneys, prostate, liver, muscles, hair and skin, and generally on the nervous system.

The regular consumption of Kefir Water Art-Sanna can progress in doses ranging from 1 glass a day, up to 3 litres of fermented beverage. It has also been attributed to the great benefits of regulating blood pressure, as well as the immune system, improving resistance against numerous diseases. Also reported was some success in regulating the glycemic indices, and therefore assisting in diabetes treatment. Being a powerful anti-oxidant, it operates beneficially on the anti-ageing process.

R has ceramic filter beads that can help clean the water for this kefir, Egberto will test this method.

Other news:

The publication of our Fire Manual will take place in the end of January /beginning of February.

There will be a new IGNITE event in June/July in Funchal, we can present new ideas there

Our organisation:

Our Blog is at https://madeiraconsorcio.com/

Facebook is at www.facebook.com/groups/madeiraconsorcio/

The Agriculture group will meet on Feb 6 

The ToBinG group will meet on Jan 23 

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